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vodkangump
註冊時間: 2008-05-14
文章: 287
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 發表於: 星期三 三月 11, 2009 3:21 pm 文章主題: ??!?upgrade |
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| ??Gaggia Baby??, ???upgrade (but not urgent), budget around Hk$5000-8000. ??C Hing ??suggestion? |
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vittorio
註冊時間: 2009-03-12
文章: 6
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LittleCup
註冊時間: 2009-01-30
文章: 106
來自: Hong Kong
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| 發表於: 星期四 三月 12, 2009 4:15 am 文章主題: Re: ??!?upgrade |
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| vodkangump 寫到: | | ??Gaggia Baby??, ???upgrade (but not urgent), budget around Hk$5000-8000. ??C Hing ??suggestion? |
What sort of enhancements over Gaggia Baby would you like to get for the upgrade? |
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LittleCup
註冊時間: 2009-01-30
文章: 106
來自: Hong Kong
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| 發表於: 星期四 三月 12, 2009 4:16 am 文章主題: Re: ??!?upgrade |
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| vodkangump 寫到: | | ??Gaggia Baby??, ???upgrade (but not urgent), budget around Hk$5000-8000. ??C Hing ??suggestion? |
What sort of enhancements over Gaggia Baby would you like to get for the upgrade? |
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vodkangump
註冊時間: 2008-05-14
文章: 287
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| 發表於: 星期四 三月 12, 2009 6:08 am 文章主題: Re: ??!?upgrade |
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| LittleCup 寫到: | | vodkangump 寫到: | | ??Gaggia Baby??, ???upgrade (but not urgent), budget around Hk$5000-8000. ??C Hing ??suggestion? |
What sort of enhancements over Gaggia Baby would you like to get for the upgrade? |
C Hing, This is a good question. I think I look for an espresso machine (semi-auto definitely) which is more consistent and tolerant than Gaggia Baby, and has more user friendly milk frothing facility, reasonably durable; and with appropriate size suit HK living space.
I feel that sometimes Baby produce two espresso sequentially (of same grains size) of different appearances and tastes. As the boiler is small, the boiling indicator keep on and off frequently, even while pulling the espresso. The pressure appears inconsistent since the sound of the pump varies time to time. Of course, I know those variations also depend on the barista skill and a skilled one can master it well. But I am interested in bean roasting currently that I like to have an machine which can produce more accurate (e.g. constant temperature and pressure head) and consistent coffee for my roasting evaluation. A tolerant machine I meant is one which can compensate my variation due to poor brewing skill. Meanwhile my GF like to get better latte art, but the Baby steam nozzle is short (after avoid part of plastic tube) and rigid, it is not so friendly to use. Also I feel the small boiler imposes more variation during frothing. Finally if you are an Baby user, you would understand my desire on durability.
I hope some C Hing can share their experience in upgrading (or not upgrading), how the upgrade values for money, and which specification I need to focus on. My budget is set based on the 2-3 times of the Baby price and I hope this jump can have an observable improvement. Is there any chance to have a double-boiler one at this range? If higher price is required to fulfill the needs, please advise. But I am not a kind of perfectionist that pursuing a top-end model. Value for money is important. Of course I will do my own research, but before that I wish to collect the opinions so that I can more focus.
Thanks all. |
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LittleCup
註冊時間: 2009-01-30
文章: 106
來自: Hong Kong
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| 發表於: 星期四 三月 12, 2009 9:44 am 文章主題: Re: ??!?upgrade |
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| vodkangump 寫到: | | LittleCup 寫到: | | vodkangump 寫到: | | ??Gaggia Baby??, ???upgrade (but not urgent), budget around Hk$5000-8000. ??C Hing ??suggestion? |
What sort of enhancements over Gaggia Baby would you like to get for the upgrade? |
C Hing, This is a good question. I think I look for an espresso machine (semi-auto definitely) which is more consistent and tolerant than Gaggia Baby, and has more user friendly milk frothing facility, reasonably durable; and with appropriate size suit HK living space.
I feel that sometimes Baby produce two espresso sequentially (of same grains size) of different appearances and tastes. As the boiler is small, the boiling indicator keep on and off frequently, even while pulling the espresso. The pressure appears inconsistent since the sound of the pump varies time to time. Of course, I know those variations also depend on the barista skill and a skilled one can master it well. But I am interested in bean roasting currently that I like to have an machine which can produce more accurate (e.g. constant temperature and pressure head) and consistent coffee for my roasting evaluation. A tolerant machine I meant is one which can compensate my variation due to poor brewing skill. Meanwhile my GF like to get better latte art, but the Baby steam nozzle is short (after avoid part of plastic tube) and rigid, it is not so friendly to use. Also I feel the small boiler imposes more variation during frothing. Finally if you are an Baby user, you would understand my desire on durability.
I hope some C Hing can share their experience in upgrading (or not upgrading), how the upgrade values for money, and which specification I need to focus on. My budget is set based on the 2-3 times of the Baby price and I hope this jump can have an observable improvement. Is there any chance to have a double-boiler one at this range? If higher price is required to fulfill the needs, please advise. But I am not a kind of perfectionist that pursuing a top-end model. Value for money is important. Of course I will do my own research, but before that I wish to collect the opinions so that I can more focus.
Thanks all. |
From what you described, you would need a machine which provides:
1. Constant temperature for brewing
2. Constant pressure
3. Good milk forthing capability
Ranxxx S may provide you 2 and 3, but it seems that 1 is lacking.
In general a good E61 machine with heat exchange can provide 1, 2, and 3. But it's not very convenient because you need to do quite frequent water flushing for controlling the temperature.
A double-boiler machine seems to fit your needs, but the pricing may be outside your range.
I'm using the new Expobar Office Leva 2 (a dual-boiler machine, very similar to Expobar Brewtus III in USA). I like the following features it provides:
1. Constant temperature for brewing
2. Constant pressure
3. Good milk forthing capability
4. Adjustable brewing temperature (for trying out different beans)
5. Adjustable brewing pressure (for getting different month-feel of the espresso)
With this machine I don't have to worry about the temperature fluctuations which lead to inconsistent tasting for different cups. Indeed I can concentrate on the beans grinding and beans selection issues. It's a good machine and I'm very happy with it. For some beans I use 90 degrees for espresso and for others I use 92 degrees. You can tell the taste difference immediately when a different temperature is selected. Now I can try out many different beans and get the best taste out of them!
I guess this machine should fit your needs, but in terms of pricing it seems that it is slightly outside your current budget. Just my little bit of sharing. |
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vodkangump
註冊時間: 2008-05-14
文章: 287
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| 發表於: 星期四 三月 12, 2009 3:32 pm 文章主題: Re: ??!?upgrade |
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Thanks for your reply.
Leva 2 is pretty out of my budget.
How would you evaluate Expobar Leva 1, Isomac Tea and Zaffiro? |
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LittleCup
註冊時間: 2009-01-30
文章: 106
來自: Hong Kong
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| 發表於: 星期四 三月 12, 2009 4:05 pm 文章主題: Re: ??!?upgrade |
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| vodkangump 寫到: | Thanks for your reply.
Leva 2 is pretty out of my budget.
How would you evaluate Expobar Leva 1, Isomac Tea and Zaffiro? |
All these 3 are E61 machines, which are similar from the brew group's perspective.
In terms of functions, Expobar Leva 1 is similar to Isomac Tea (and they look alike too). Isomac Zaffiro does not provide the hot water wand when compared to Tea. This may not be a big loss if you don't need to have frequent hot water generation for Americano for instance.
In terms of external look-and-feel I like Isomac more. In terms of inner design (from some of the reviews by other Expobar and Ismac users), I tend to like Expobar more.
Isomac is an Italian machine which you'll find beauty and functionality going together most of the time; Expobar is a Spanish machine which you get the same functionality, but it's not as beautiful as its Italian counterpart.
Expobar seems to have more reviews and the comments are in general very positive. Isomac should also be a very good brand name but there aren't as many reviews in the US because of some voltage problems in US some time ago.
If you consider a good price performance ratio as you mentioned, I guess Expobar may suit you slightly better in this dimension.
Isomac is nice, but it seems to be a bit expensive to me, since I need to spend quite a bit of money, but still I cannot control the temperature of the brew. |
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vittorio
註冊時間: 2009-03-12
文章: 6
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harry
註冊時間: 2006-09-10
文章: 1367
來自: Hong Kong
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| 發表於: 星期四 三月 12, 2009 6:08 pm 文章主題: |
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????Landy?????????????....??EXPOBAR OFFICE PULSER 1GR?啱?Budget.....????$$?????.. 
_________________
????B???.......
1. ???????????.........
2. ??厠??????????????.......
3. ??????????????....... |
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vodkangump
註冊時間: 2008-05-14
文章: 287
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| 發表於: 星期五 三月 13, 2009 2:29 am 文章主題: Re: ??!?upgrade |
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| LittleCup 寫到: | | vodkangump 寫到: | Thanks for your reply.
Leva 2 is pretty out of my budget.
How would you evaluate Expobar Leva 1, Isomac Tea and Zaffiro? |
All these 3 are E61 machines, which are similar from the brew group's perspective.
In terms of functions, Expobar Leva 1 is similar to Isomac Tea (and they look alike too). Isomac Zaffiro does not provide the hot water wand when compared to Tea. This may not be a big loss if you don't need to have frequent hot water generation for Americano for instance.
In terms of external look-and-feel I like Isomac more. In terms of inner design (from some of the reviews by other Expobar and Ismac users), I tend to like Expobar more.
Isomac is an Italian machine which you'll find beauty and functionality going together most of the time; Expobar is a Spanish machine which you get the same functionality, but it's not as beautiful as its Italian counterpart.
Expobar seems to have more reviews and the comments are in general very positive. Isomac should also be a very good brand name but there aren't as many reviews in the US because of some voltage problems in US some time ago.
If you consider a good price performance ratio as you mentioned, I guess Expobar may suit you slightly better in this dimension.
Isomac is nice, but it seems to be a bit expensive to me, since I need to spend quite a bit of money, but still I cannot control the temperature of the brew. |
Dear LittleCup CHing,
Thanks for your detailed evaluation  . I think hot water wand is not essential to me, since if I want water-based coffee, I tend to use drip method or french press. Regarding your last sentence, are you saying the temperature stability of Isomac is inferior? |
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vodkangump
註冊時間: 2008-05-14
文章: 287
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| 發表於: 星期五 三月 13, 2009 2:31 am 文章主題: Re: ??!?upgrade |
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Dear Vittorio CHing,
Many thanks for your effort in collecting the information. I will digest them and come back when I draw some conclusion. |
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vodkangump
註冊時間: 2008-05-14
文章: 287
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| 發表於: 星期五 三月 13, 2009 2:35 am 文章主題: |
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| harry 寫到: | | ????Landy?????????????....??EXPOBAR OFFICE PULSER 1GR?啱?Budget.....????$$?????.. |
Dear Harry CHing,
Yeah this is a good suggestion  . I just like to know more before I bother Shing and Landy. Anyways I am not in hurry of Upgrading. |
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LittleCup
註冊時間: 2009-01-30
文章: 106
來自: Hong Kong
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| 發表於: 星期五 三月 13, 2009 6:06 am 文章主題: Re: ??!?upgrade |
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| vodkangump 寫到: | Dear LittleCup CHing,
Thanks for your detailed evaluation . I think hot water wand is not essential to me, since if I want water-based coffee, I tend to use drip method or french press. Regarding your last sentence, are you saying the temperature stability of Isomac is inferior? |
I wouldn't say Ismac is inferior but this is a general issue regarding to the difference between an HX machine and a dual-boiler machine.
For HX machine, you can get quite stable temperature *during* the brewing process, but you may get different temperatures in *different* brews. E.g. in the morning you get a nice espresso at 90 degrees, and in the afternoon you want to make the same espresso again to show it to your friends but you find the temperature to be 93 degrees! So that means it is not easy for you to *reproduce* the great shots you made earlier.
A skillful barista can handle the HX machine by pulling empty shots of hot water. The barista times the idle time of the machine and apply the proper amount of water shots for cooling/heating (depending on the machine). But still this requires time, and you may not be able to afford this time in the morning at home before going to work!
A dual-boiler machine tackles the problem differently. By separating the boilers between brewing and steaming, a constant and consistent brewing temperature can be easily maintained. Coffee machine manufacturers such as La Mazxxx and Epobxx use PID for futher fine tune and control the temperature stability for brewing, resulting in very accurate brewing temperature not only during brewing, but also between brews. So it's relatively easy to get several shots of great espressos in a row, in the morning, in the afternoon, and any other time you like.
So the bottom line is: if you intend to use an HX machine, be prepared to spend more time and effort to control the temperature before the shots, although you can still brew and steam at the same time. If you find this practice ok and not too inconvenient to you, a HX machine is certainly your target machine. |
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vittorio
註冊時間: 2009-03-12
文章: 6
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