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SimonCHAN
註冊時間: 2008-05-31
文章: 270
來自: HKSAR
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 發表於: 星期六 三月 28, 2009 7:13 am 文章主題: |
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??????????????????响??????
SimonCHAN |
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Dicky
註冊時間: 2009-01-18
文章: 232
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| 發表於: 星期二 四月 14, 2009 2:06 pm 文章主題: |
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???????
4020??filter
13g???30ml?????13g?brewing ratio = 100%
???????ristretto???espresso?? |
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vodkangump
註冊時間: 2008-05-14
文章: 287
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| 發表於: 星期四 四月 16, 2009 4:16 am 文章主題: |
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| Dicky 寫到: | ???????
4020??filter
13g???30ml?????13g?brewing ratio = 100%
???????ristretto???espresso?? |
30ml includes creama? |
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Dicky
註冊時間: 2009-01-18
文章: 232
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| 發表於: 星期四 四月 16, 2009 10:24 am 文章主題: |
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yes
??30ml???????????? |
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vodkangump
註冊時間: 2008-05-14
文章: 287
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| 發表於: 星期四 四月 16, 2009 12:45 pm 文章主題: |
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| Dicky 寫到: | yes
??30ml???????????? |
Just for sharing.
I asked a similar question before and I found no exact answer up to now.
The top rule you said, as I was told, was set out by classic Italians, but there are quite a number of modern coffee addicts don't agree with this (from what I read and observed in the internet). And usually most of them advocate up-dosing.
My current findings is: An espresso is the perfect extraction (of espresso method) of a particular coffee bean of particular roast. Under a constant tamp, there exists one combination of optimal grind size and weight for one setting i.e. a particular grinder and particular espresso machine with a particular basket, temp, pressure. Consequently, different settings may result different volumes.
What is the perfect extraction? the full extraction of the desirable flavour of the bean, theoretically (and thus subject to one's taste). How to determine the perfect extraction? varies. I feel the current most agreed and observable judge: stop the flow when it turns blond/watery within a reasonable time (mostly refers 25-35sec).
This is my humble opinion and others may provide other sayings, and again, following my starting point, probably this is no exact answer. |
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SimonCHAN
註冊時間: 2008-05-31
文章: 270
來自: HKSAR
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| 發表於: 星期四 四月 16, 2009 2:10 pm 文章主題: |
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| vodkangump 寫到: | My current findings is: An espresso is the perfect extraction (of espresso method) of a particular coffee bean of particular roast. Under a constant tamp, there exists one combination of optimal grind size and weight for one setting i.e. a particular grinder and particular espresso machine with a particular basket, temp, pressure. Consequently, different settings may result different volumes.
What is the perfect extraction? the full extraction of the desirable flavour of the bean, theoretically (and thus subject to one's taste). How to determine the perfect extraction? varies. I feel the current most agreed and observable judge: stop the flow when it turns blond/watery within a reasonable time (mostly refers 25-35sec). |
I am afraid I could hardly agree with your concept. I would say ristretto is the better part of an espresso extraction (of espresso method).
In fact, these terms are just terminology for a particular brewing method/ratio.
I don't think any one is superior to another one but everyone may have their own favourite.
Just my 2 cents.
SimonCHAN |
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Dicky
註冊時間: 2009-01-18
文章: 232
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| 發表於: 星期四 四月 16, 2009 2:14 pm 文章主題: |
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| ???espresso??????????????single?double?????single filter 7g???30ml espresso??double filter 14g???30ml?????double?60ml????????25-30??30ml?60ml?????? |
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vodkangump
註冊時間: 2008-05-14
文章: 287
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| 發表於: 星期四 四月 16, 2009 5:47 pm 文章主題: |
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| SimonCHAN 寫到: | | vodkangump 寫到: | My current findings is: An espresso is the perfect extraction (of espresso method) of a particular coffee bean of particular roast. Under a constant tamp, there exists one combination of optimal grind size and weight for one setting i.e. a particular grinder and particular espresso machine with a particular basket, temp, pressure. Consequently, different settings may result different volumes.
What is the perfect extraction? the full extraction of the desirable flavour of the bean, theoretically (and thus subject to one's taste). How to determine the perfect extraction? varies. I feel the current most agreed and observable judge: stop the flow when it turns blond/watery within a reasonable time (mostly refers 25-35sec). |
I am afraid I could hardly agree with your concept. I would say ristretto is the better part of an espresso extraction (of espresso method).
In fact, these terms are just terminology for a particular brewing method/ratio.
I don't think any one is superior to another one but everyone may have their own favourite.
Just my 2 cents.
SimonCHAN |
Simon C Hing,
I didn't try to distinguish ristretto and espresso, this is sort of terminology, as you said. I am trying to say, from my observations, there is a belief that a prefect extraction for each particular setting exists. This makes sense as many people advocate fix the tamp and dose volume first, adjust grind size and then fine-tune the dose volume to approach the best extraction (I like to use 'best' here instead of 'prefect' since prefect is barely attainable). And that is why some CHings advised using 13g for double basket of Krup 4020 and certain grind setting of 600N to extract about 30ml coffee liquid since they found this is the best extraction. This extraction is more generically currently called espresso regardless the extracted volume, and the focus is to get the best extraction rather that to define it as ristretto or else. Similarly, if you taste the 'ristretto' is the "better part" of your 'espresso', thus logically you would keep on extracting the same "better part" from your espresso machine and would you say your machine as 'ristretto' machine? (jokking)
This is only trying to share my view on the puzzle of the previous posts, and not arguing the term definition.
If I have misconception, thanks for further correction.
Just my 2 cents |
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vodkangump
註冊時間: 2008-05-14
文章: 287
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| 發表於: 星期五 四月 17, 2009 2:38 am 文章主題: |
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| Dicky 寫到: | | ???espresso??????????????single?double?????single filter 7g???30ml espresso??double filter 14g???30ml?????double?60ml????????25-30??30ml?60ml?????? |
In my humble opinion,
1. Currently there are very few people advocate using single filter, more commonly using double or even triple filter.
2. Is the taste of 30ml shot from single filter equal to 30ml from double filter? if yes, you will stick on single filter, cost effective; if no and if you like to have a better taste, you will stick on double filter.
3. Is the taste of 60ml shot of double filter equal to 30ml from same double filter? (A simple logic is that 60ml is obtainable by increasing the average flow rate to 2ml/sec or exaggeratedly lengthening the extraction time (60sec), by changing the grind/volume/tamp etc and etc.) Again, if yes, stick on 60ml, cost effective; if no and if you like to have a better taste, you will stick on 30ml.
4. Up to that point, you find 30ml /double filter of your machine/setting/bean is the best desirable extraction (to your taste) as far as you can. And for other machine/setting/bean you may find 45ml/double filter and so on. And, IMO, it is less meaningful whether it is a ristretto or single espresso or double espresso.
5. I think many CHings here shared their valuable experience on particular setting (say, 13g/20-30ml/krup4020/600N) is trying to give the hint and shortcut to the latecomers. That is why I think there is no, or not necessary to have, an exact answer, as we pursue the perfect extraction, not definition. "?????".
Just my 2 cents. |
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pillowpaky
註冊時間: 2007-11-24
文章: 696
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| 發表於: 星期五 四月 17, 2009 9:06 am 文章主題: |
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????
??? ??"7?"????(?????...) "3?"?????(????????)
????Perfect Shot????? ?????????
?? ?????? ??????????????????????"?"??
?????????
?????????"????????"
?Espresso Machine??? ???????(??????????)
??????????????2 Perfect Shot???(?????????)
????????????
_________________
http://pillowpaky.blogspot.com/ |
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Dicky
註冊時間: 2009-01-18
文章: 232
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| 發表於: 星期五 四月 17, 2009 3:00 pm 文章主題: |
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???????ristretto/espresso/double espresso?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????(??cappu vs latte)???????????ristretto/espresso??????
?????d???? |
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